[Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without using REFER method possible?

[Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri]

Hi,
? ?Is there any way when a answered call ?[ 200OK is already provided for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER method?

? If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required procedure.

Thanks,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri

[Johan DE CLERCQ]

you can do that by issuing a reinvite in the dialogue.

Johan.

-----Original Message-----
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Sent: maandag 4 augustus 2014 16:12
To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without usingREFER method possible? - Email found in subject

Hi,
? ?Is there any way when a answered call ?[ 200OK is already provided for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER method?

? If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required procedure.

Thanks,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7977 - Release Date: 08/04/14

[swaminathan.seetharaman]

Yes, indeed a Re-INVITE can be initiated in both directions by the transferor.

For e.g.:
A=transferor, B=transferee, C=transfer target

C A B
----------> (Re-INVITE with no SDP)
<---------- (200 OK with SDP_b)
<-------- (Re-INVITE with SDP_b)
---------> (200 OK with SDP_c)
-----------> (ACK with SDP_c)

-----Original Message-----
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Johan DE CLERCQ
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:33 PM
To: Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without usingREFER method possible? - Email found in subject

you can do that by issuing a reinvite in the dialogue.

Johan.

-----Original Message-----
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Sent: maandag 4 augustus 2014 16:12
To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without usingREFER method possible? - Email found in subject

Hi,
? ?Is there any way when a answered call ?[ 200OK is already provided for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER method?

? If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required procedure.

Thanks,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7977 - Release Date: 08/04/14 _______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email.

www.wipro.com

[Vivek Batra]

Johan,

I was also thinking on sending reinvite, but it will only change the media
IP address and won't create the new dialog to transfer target...

Best Regards,
Vivek Batra

-----Original Message-----
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Johan
DE CLERCQ
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 1:33 PM
To: Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without
usingREFER method possible? - Email found in subject

you can do that by issuing a reinvite in the dialogue.

Johan.

-----Original Message-----
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Sourav
Dhar Chaudhuri
Sent: maandag 4 augustus 2014 16:12
To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without
usingREFER method possible? - Email found in subject

Hi,
? ?Is there any way when a answered call ?[ 200OK is already provided for
initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER
method?

? If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required
procedure.

Thanks,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7977 - Release Date: 08/04/14

[Henning Christiansen]

Maybe usage of the "Replaces" header (defined in RFC 3891) will help in
your scenario.

Mit freundlichen Gr??en

Henning Christiansen

Entwicklung
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] Im Auftrag von
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Gesendet: Montag, 4. August 2014 16:12
An: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Betreff: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without
using REFER method possible?

Hi,
? ?Is there any way when a answered call ?[ 200OK is already provided for
initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER
method?

? If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required
procedure.

Thanks,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri

[rohit verma]

check RFC 5359 section 2.6 using MESSAGE method.

Regards,
Rohit


On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Henning Christiansen <hc at stollmann.de>

Post by Henning Christiansen
Maybe usage of the "Replaces" header (defined in RFC 3891) will help in
your scenario.
Mit freundlichen Gr??en
Henning Christiansen
Entwicklung
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] Im Auftrag von
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Gesendet: Montag, 4. August 2014 16:12
An: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Betreff: [Sip-implementors] Call transfer for an attended call without
using REFER method possible?
Hi,
Is there any way when a answered call [ 200OK is already provided for
initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER
method?
If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required
procedure.
Thanks,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors

[Paul Kyzivat]

Hi,
Is there any way when a answered call [ 200OK is already provided for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER method?
If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required procedure.

More detail is needed to answer this.

Lets assume that Alice and Bob are in a call. You want a transfer, so
let's assume the transfer target is Charlie.

Further, assume it is Alice that wants to initiate the transfer,
resulting ultimately in Bob talking to Charlie.

A simple answer to your question is for Alice to initiate the call to
Charlie, and then bridge the media between Bob and Charlie. It is also
possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a direct
*media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them.

The reason for REFER is to get Alice out of the signaling path. If there
is a middlebox in the signaling (e.g. a sip pbx or an SBC) then in
principle Alice can ask that middlebox to handle the transfer. But Alice
needs a way to convey the desire to do so. Often REFER is still used for
that, but is intercepted by middlebox, which then uses mechanisms such
as I described above. Some other mechanism, other than REFER, can be
used for that but it will be a proprietary solution.

Does that help?
Paul

[Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri]

Hi Paul,?
? ?Thanks a lot for your detailed response. You have answered all my doubts.
? ?
? I am really grateful for your email.

Thanks & Regards,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri

Hi,
? ? Is there any way when a answered call? [ 200OK is already provided for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using REFER method?
? ? If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required procedure.

More detail is needed to answer this.

Lets assume that Alice and Bob are in a call. You want a transfer, so
let's assume the transfer target is Charlie.

Further, assume it is Alice that wants to initiate the transfer,
resulting ultimately in Bob talking to Charlie.

A simple answer to your question is for Alice to initiate the call to
Charlie, and then bridge the media between Bob and Charlie. It is also
possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a direct
*media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them.

The reason for REFER is to get Alice out of the signaling path. If there
is a middlebox in the signaling (e.g. a sip pbx or an SBC) then in
principle Alice can ask that middlebox to handle the transfer. But Alice
needs a way to convey the desire to do so. Often REFER is still used for
that, but is intercepted by middlebox, which then uses mechanisms such
as I described above. Some other mechanism, other than REFER, can be
used for that but it will be a proprietary solution.

??? Does that help?
??? Paul

[Arun Tagare]

Hi Paul,

According to your response as below.
"It is also possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a
direct *media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them"

While Alice remains in the signaling path means it is some thing like
"Conference Call you are talking about"
Correct me if i am wrong.

Thank you,

With Regards
Arun A. Tagare




On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri <

Post by Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Hi Paul,
Thanks a lot for your detailed response. You have answered all my
doubts.
I am really grateful for your email.
Thanks & Regards,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri

Post by Henning Christiansen
Hi,
Is there any way when a answered call [ 200OK is already provided

for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using
REFER method?

Post by Henning Christiansen
If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required

procedure.
More detail is needed to answer this.
Lets assume that Alice and Bob are in a call. You want a transfer, so
let's assume the transfer target is Charlie.
Further, assume it is Alice that wants to initiate the transfer,
resulting ultimately in Bob talking to Charlie.
A simple answer to your question is for Alice to initiate the call to
Charlie, and then bridge the media between Bob and Charlie. It is also
possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a direct
*media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them.
The reason for REFER is to get Alice out of the signaling path. If there
is a middlebox in the signaling (e.g. a sip pbx or an SBC) then in
principle Alice can ask that middlebox to handle the transfer. But Alice
needs a way to convey the desire to do so. Often REFER is still used for
that, but is intercepted by middlebox, which then uses mechanisms such
as I described above. Some other mechanism, other than REFER, can be
used for that but it will be a proprietary solution.
Does that help?
Paul
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors

[Brett Tate]

Post by Arun Tagare
According to your response as below.
"It is also possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish
a direct *media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains
in the signaling path between them"
While Alice remains in the signaling path means it is some thing like
"Conference Call you are talking about"
Correct me if i am wrong.

The sentence was literally referring to RFC 3725 type stuff where Alice
switches to act like a 3pcc device. However it might be more common for
Alice's outbound device (instead Alice's device) to behave as the 3pcc
device and remain in the signaling path after the transfer; for example,
see RFC 3725 section 7.

Post by Arun Tagare
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri <

Post by Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Hi Paul,
Thanks a lot for your detailed response. You have answered all my
doubts.
I am really grateful for your email.
Thanks & Regards,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
On Tuesday, 5 August 2014 8:11 PM, Paul Kyzivat
<pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>

Post by Henning Christiansen
Hi,
Is there any way when a answered call [ 200OK is already provided

for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred without using
REFER method?

Post by Henning Christiansen
If it is possible without REFER then please let me know required

procedure.
More detail is needed to answer this.
Lets assume that Alice and Bob are in a call. You want a transfer, so
let's assume the transfer target is Charlie.
Further, assume it is Alice that wants to initiate the transfer,
resulting ultimately in Bob talking to Charlie.
A simple answer to your question is for Alice to initiate the call to
Charlie, and then bridge the media between Bob and Charlie. It is also
possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a direct
*media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them.
The reason for REFER is to get Alice out of the signaling path. If
there is a middlebox in the signaling (e.g. a sip pbx or an SBC) then
in principle Alice can ask that middlebox to handle the transfer. But
Alice needs a way to convey the desire to do so. Often REFER is still
used for that, but is intercepted by middlebox, which then uses
mechanisms such as I described above. Some other mechanism, other than
REFER, can be used for that but it will be a proprietary solution.
Does that help?
Paul

[Paul Kyzivat]

Post by Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Hi Paul,
According to your response as below.
"It is also possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a
direct *media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them"
While Alice remains in the signaling path means it is some thing like
"Conference Call you are talking about"
Correct me if i am wrong.

That depends on what you mean by "some thing like". :-)

You can think of it as a conference hosted by Alice, but where Alice is
muted. Because Alice is muted there is no need for "mixing" of the media
- it is sufficient to "switch" the media. So it is a lower cost operation.

Thanks,
Paul

Post by Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Thank you,
With Regards
Arun A. Tagare
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Hi Paul,
Thanks a lot for your detailed response. You have answered all
my doubts.
I am really grateful for your email.
Thanks & Regards,
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
On Tuesday, 5 August 2014 8:11 PM, Paul Kyzivat

Post by Henning Christiansen
Hi,
Is there any way when a answered call [ 200OK is already

provided for initial INVITE and ACK also sent] can be transferred
without using REFER method?

Post by Henning Christiansen
If it is possible without REFER then please let me know

required procedure.
More detail is needed to answer this.
Lets assume that Alice and Bob are in a call. You want a transfer, so
let's assume the transfer target is Charlie.
Further, assume it is Alice that wants to initiate the transfer,
resulting ultimately in Bob talking to Charlie.
A simple answer to your question is for Alice to initiate the call to
Charlie, and then bridge the media between Bob and Charlie. It is also
possible for Alice to use 3pcc O/A techniques to establish a direct
*media* path between Bob and Charlie, while Alice remains in the
signaling path between them.
The reason for REFER is to get Alice out of the signaling path. If there
is a middlebox in the signaling (e.g. a sip pbx or an SBC) then in
principle Alice can ask that middlebox to handle the transfer. But Alice
needs a way to convey the desire to do so. Often REFER is still used for
that, but is intercepted by middlebox, which then uses mechanisms such
as I described above. Some other mechanism, other than REFER, can be
used for that but it will be a proprietary solution.
Does that help?
Paul
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
--
With Regards
Arun A. Tagare
[phone]