Discussion:
[Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.
Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
2014-10-15 14:22:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?



A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B

A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR

CRBT Played

A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B

A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B


Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?

Regards

Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
VARUN BHATIA
2014-10-15 14:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sourav,

You cannot send an offer unless you receive an acknowledgement
corresponding to your answer therefore you can send SDP in 200 OK but
it will be treated as an answer only.

Normally clients honor both the answers but standards say it should
honor first answer if I am not missing anything.

Thanks,
Varun

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
<sourav_mitul at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Hi,
> Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
>
>
>
> A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B
>
> A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
>
> CRBT Played
>
> A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B
>
> A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B
>
>
> Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> Regards
>
> Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors



--
Regards,
Varun Bhatia
Mustafa AYDIN
2014-10-15 14:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sourav,

The client would not get CRBT unless there is reliable prov response, because the server would not know where to send early media rtp packets. If there was a prack mechanism then the sdp of the client would be sent in prack message and early media scenario would be successful.

Thnks.
Mustafa

________________________________________
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of VARUN BHATIA [varuninbharti at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:27 PM
To: Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.eduIf
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

Hi Sourav,

You cannot send an offer unless you receive an acknowledgement
corresponding to your answer therefore you can send SDP in 200 OK but
it will be treated as an answer only.

Normally clients honor both the answers but standards say it should
honor first answer if I am not missing anything.

Thanks,
Varun

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
<sourav_mitul at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Hi,
> Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
>
>
>
> A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B
>
> A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
>
> CRBT Played
>
> A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B
>
> A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B
>
>
> Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> Regards
>
> Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors



--
Regards,
Varun Bhatia
Mustafa AYDIN
2014-10-15 14:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Sourav,

Sorry I thought Inv is sent without sdp. I believe the UAC should be able to get CRBT in your call scenario.

Rgrds
Mustafa

From: Mustafa AYDIN
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:41 PM
To: VARUN BHATIA; Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: RE: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

Hi Sourav,

The client would not get CRBT unless there is reliable prov response, because the server would not know where to send early media rtp packets. If there was a prack mechanism then the sdp of the client would be sent in prack message and early media scenario would be successful.

Thnks.
Mustafa

________________________________________
From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of VARUN BHATIA [varuninbharti at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:27 PM
To: Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.eduIf
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

Hi Sourav,

You cannot send an offer unless you receive an acknowledgement
corresponding to your answer therefore you can send SDP in 200 OK but
it will be treated as an answer only.

Normally clients honor both the answers but standards say it should
honor first answer if I am not missing anything.

Thanks,
Varun

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
<sourav_mitul at yahoo.co.in> wrote:
> Hi,
> Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
>
>
>
> A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B
>
> A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
>
> CRBT Played
>
> A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B
>
> A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B
>
>
> Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> Regards
>
> Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors



--
Regards,
Varun Bhatia
Paul Kyzivat
2014-10-15 14:47:15 UTC
Permalink
On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> Hi,
> Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
>
>
>
> A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B
>
> A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
>
> CRBT Played
>
> A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B
>
> A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B
>
>
> Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?

This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.

See RFC6337.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards
>
> Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>
Mustafa AYDIN
2014-10-15 14:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Phil,

I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question is with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the client would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?

Rgrda
Mustafa

From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> Hi,
> Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
>
>
>
> A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B
>
> A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
>
> CRBT Played
>
> A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B
>
> A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B
>
>
> Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?

This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.

See RFC6337.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards
>
> Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>
Vivek Talwar
2014-10-15 15:30:50 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sourav,

The UAS cann't send new offer in initial INVITE as per standards.
Although above scenario can be propitiatory where sdp in 200 OK can be
treated as answer but again as per standards sdp should be same in 1xx and
2xx responses. This will depend on client but yes above can work in some
cases as B knows where to send media packets.

Thanks and Regards,
Vivek Talwar

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Mustafa AYDIN <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>
wrote:

> Phil,
>
> I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question is
> with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the client
> would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?
>
> Rgrda
> Mustafa
>
> From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu [
> sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat
> [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
> To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
> >
> >
> >
> > A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer)
> ========================> B
> >
> > A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer )
> ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
> >
> > CRBT Played
> >
> > A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer)
> =============== B
> >
> > A ================= ACK (new SDP answer)
> =======================> B
> >
> >
> > Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using
> Reliable Provisional response?
>
> This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.
>
> See RFC6337.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip-implementors mailing list
> > Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> > https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>



--

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Mustafa AYDIN
2014-10-15 16:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi Vivek,

I agree most of your comment, however considering that the question here is ?can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.? and due to the fact that CRBT is an actually an early media RTP flow (played before 200 OK), there is nothing to prevent UAC to get the CRBT in this scenario as the UAS knows where to send RTP. There should not be a dependency to the client as it is totally as per RFC.

Regards,

Mustafa Ayd?n
NGN Services
Verscom Solutions
[cid:image002.jpg at 01CFE8AC.97668110]

From: Vivek Talwar [mailto:vivek.talwar at globallogic.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:31 PM
To: Mustafa AYDIN
Cc: Paul Kyzivat; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

Hi Sourav,
The UAS cann't send new offer in initial INVITE as per standards. Although above scenario can be propitiatory where sdp in 200 OK can be treated as answer but again as per standards sdp should be same in 1xx and 2xx responses. This will depend on client but yes above can work in some cases as B knows where to send media packets.
Thanks and Regards,
Vivek Talwar

On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Mustafa AYDIN <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com<mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>> wrote:
Phil,

I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question is with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the client would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?

Rgrda
Mustafa

From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu> [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.
On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> Hi,
> Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
>
>
>
> A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer) ========================> B
>
> A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer ) ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
>
> CRBT Played
>
> A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer) =============== B
>
> A ================= ACK (new SDP answer) =======================> B
>
>
> Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without using Reliable Provisional response?

This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.

See RFC6337.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards
>
> Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>

_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
_______________________________________________
Sip-implementors mailing list
Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors



--

Name | Title
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P +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx M +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx S skype
www.globallogic.com<http://www.globallogic.com/>

http://www.globallogic.com/email_disclaimer.txt
Paul Kyzivat
2014-10-15 16:36:21 UTC
Permalink
On 10/15/14 12:16 PM, Mustafa AYDIN wrote:
> Hi Vivek,
>
> I agree most of your comment, however considering that the question here
> is ?can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.? and due to
> the fact that CRBT is an actually an _early media RTP flow_ (played
> before 200 OK), there is nothing to prevent UAC to get the CRBT in this
> scenario as the UAS knows where to send RTP. There should not be a
> dependency to the client as it is totally as per RFC.

Yes, the caller should get the early media. The problem is with the 200
with a new offer. So the caller may not get the final media.

But your issue is that the caller isn't getting the early media???

If so, maybe it is something else. For instance, it is pretty common to
gate the incoming media - requiring that it come from the IP
address/port in the answer. Maybe the media isn't being sent that way.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards,
>
> Mustafa Ayd?n
>
> NGN Services
>
> Verscom Solutions
>
> cid:image002.png at 01CFD749.D928FC00
>
> *From:*Vivek Talwar [mailto:vivek.talwar at globallogic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:31 PM
> *To:* Mustafa AYDIN
> *Cc:* Paul Kyzivat; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> Hi Sourav,
>
> The UAS cann't send new offer in initial INVITE as per
> standards. Although above scenario can be propitiatory where sdp in 200
> OK can be treated as answer but again as per standards sdp should be
> same in 1xx and 2xx responses. This will depend on client but yes above
> can work in some cases as B knows where to send media packets.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Vivek Talwar
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Mustafa AYDIN
> <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com <mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question is
> with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the
> client would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?
>
> Rgrda
> Mustafa
>
> From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>] On Behalf Of
> Paul Kyzivat [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
> To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
> >
> >
> >
> > A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer)
> ========================> B
> >
> > A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer )
> ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
> >
> > CRBT Played
> >
> > A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer)
> =============== B
> >
> > A ================= ACK (new SDP answer)
> =======================> B
> >
> >
> > Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without
> using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.
>
> See RFC6337.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip-implementors mailing list
> > Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> > https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Name | Title*
> GlobalLogic
> P +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx M +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx S skype
> www.globallogic.com <http://www.globallogic.com/>
>
> http://www.globallogic.com/email_disclaimer.txt
>
Mustafa AYDIN
2014-10-15 17:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,

Yes, it seems that Sourav's concern is with early media as you can also see from the call diagram that he sent. CRBT stands for "colorful ringback tone", it is actually a specific song or audio file to play instead of the standard ring tone. As you said, it is possible that the early media might be sent from wrong IP:port pair.

Rgrds,
Mustafa Ayd?n
NGN Services
Verscom Solutions



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kyzivat [mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:36 PM
To: Mustafa AYDIN; Vivek Talwar
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

On 10/15/14 12:16 PM, Mustafa AYDIN wrote:
> Hi Vivek,
>
> I agree most of your comment, however considering that the question
> here is ?can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.? and
> due to the fact that CRBT is an actually an _early media RTP flow_
> (played before 200 OK), there is nothing to prevent UAC to get the
> CRBT in this scenario as the UAS knows where to send RTP. There should not be a
> dependency to the client as it is totally as per RFC.

Yes, the caller should get the early media. The problem is with the 200 with a new offer. So the caller may not get the final media.

But your issue is that the caller isn't getting the early media???

If so, maybe it is something else. For instance, it is pretty common to gate the incoming media - requiring that it come from the IP address/port in the answer. Maybe the media isn't being sent that way.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards,
>
> Mustafa Ayd?n
>
> NGN Services
>
> Verscom Solutions
>
> cid:image002.png at 01CFD749.D928FC00
>
> *From:*Vivek Talwar [mailto:vivek.talwar at globallogic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:31 PM
> *To:* Mustafa AYDIN
> *Cc:* Paul Kyzivat; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> Hi Sourav,
>
> The UAS cann't send new offer in initial INVITE as per
> standards. Although above scenario can be propitiatory where sdp in
> 200 OK can be treated as answer but again as per standards sdp should
> be same in 1xx and 2xx responses. This will depend on client but yes
> above can work in some cases as B knows where to send media packets.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Vivek Talwar
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Mustafa AYDIN
> <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com <mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question
> is with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the
> client would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?
>
> Rgrda
> Mustafa
>
> From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>] On Behalf Of
> Paul Kyzivat [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
> To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
> >
> >
> >
> > A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer)
> ========================> B
> >
> > A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer )
> ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
> >
> > CRBT Played
> >
> > A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer)
> =============== B
> >
> > A ================= ACK (new SDP answer)
> =======================> B
> >
> >
> > Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without
> using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.
>
> See RFC6337.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip-implementors mailing list
> > Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
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Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
2014-10-16 05:07:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi ,
Thanks all for your reply... So I just need the clarifications.

1) Can CRBT be played without Reliable provisional Response? If yes then whether the SDP is required in that unreliable provisional response?

2) Also since Paul already replied that as per RFC 6337 there should not be any new offer in 200OK of INVITE [as per my call flow in first mail] . So my question is after CRBT how will be caller A informed the change on Media.. Please refer my below example.
A has sent INVITE to B for a Video call. Then in CRBT is some song/music being played to A instead of ringing... After the establishment of call the Video chat should start. So How SDP negotiation will happen?

I will be really grateful if you clarify my query by two example of SDP flow. One without using any reliable provisional response and another using Reliable provisional response

Regards,

Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri


On Wednesday, 15 October 2014 10:52 PM, Mustafa AYDIN <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com> wrote:



Hi Paul,

Yes, it seems that Sourav's concern is with early media as you can also see from the call diagram that he sent. CRBT stands for "colorful ringback tone", it is actually a specific song or audio file to play instead of the standard ring tone. As you said, it is possible that the early media might be sent from wrong IP:port pair.

Rgrds,
Mustafa Ayd?n
NGN Services
Verscom Solutions




-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kyzivat [mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:36 PM
To: Mustafa AYDIN; Vivek Talwar
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

On 10/15/14 12:16 PM, Mustafa AYDIN wrote:
> Hi Vivek,
>
> I agree most of your comment, however considering that the question
> here is ?can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.? and
> due to the fact that CRBT is an actually an _early media RTP flow_
> (played before 200 OK), there is nothing to prevent UAC to get the
> CRBT in this scenario as the UAS knows where to send RTP. There should not be a
> dependency to the client as it is totally as per RFC.

Yes, the caller should get the early media. The problem is with the 200 with a new offer. So the caller may not get the final media.

But your issue is that the caller isn't getting the early media???

If so, maybe it is something else. For instance, it is pretty common to gate the incoming media - requiring that it come from the IP address/port in the answer. Maybe the media isn't being sent that way.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards,
>
> Mustafa Ayd?n
>
> NGN Services
>
> Verscom Solutions
>
> cid:image002.png at 01CFD749.D928FC00
>
> *From:*Vivek Talwar [mailto:vivek.talwar at globallogic.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:31 PM
> *To:* Mustafa AYDIN
> *Cc:* Paul Kyzivat; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> Hi Sourav,
>
> The UAS cann't send new offer in initial INVITE as per
> standards. Although above scenario can be propitiatory where sdp in
> 200 OK can be treated as answer but again as per standards sdp should
> be same in 1xx and 2xx responses. This will depend on client but yes
> above can work in some cases as B knows where to send media packets.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Vivek Talwar
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Mustafa AYDIN
> <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com <mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question
> is with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the
> client would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?
>
> Rgrda
> Mustafa
>
> From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>] On Behalf Of
> Paul Kyzivat [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu <mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
> To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
> >
> >
> >
> > A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer)
> ========================> B
> >
> > A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer )
> ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
> >
> > CRBT Played
> >
> > A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer)
> =============== B
> >
> > A ================= ACK (new SDP answer)
> =======================> B
> >
> >
> > Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without
> using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.
>
> See RFC6337.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip-implementors mailing list
> > Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> > https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Name | Title*
> GlobalLogic
> P +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx M +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx S skype www.globallogic.com
> <http://www.globallogic.com/>
>
> http://www.globallogic.com/email_disclaimer.txt
>
Brett Tate
2014-10-16 12:27:56 UTC
Permalink
> 1) Can CRBT be played without Reliable provisional Response? If yes then
> whether the SDP is required in that unreliable provisional response?

Yes; it can be played. The preview SDP is not required (unless contains
something required before rendering media); however you have a higher
likelihood of it being rendered.

> 2) Also since Paul already replied that as per RFC 6337 there should not
> be
> any new offer in 200OK of INVITE [as per my call flow in first mail] . So
> my
> question is after CRBT how will be caller A informed the change on Media..
> Please refer my below example.
> A has sent INVITE to B for a Video call. Then in CRBT is some
> song/music
> being played to A instead of ringing... After the establishment of call
> the
> Video chat should start. So How SDP negotiation will happen?

Since 100rel not used, the offer/answer model basically leaves you two
options (excluding commonly used offer/answer violations) if the called
party needs to supply an updated SDP.

1) Send re-INVITE after receiving ACK.
2) Simulate a forking proxy interaction. For instance, send a new To tag
within the 200 response.

> I will be really grateful if you clarify my query by two example of SDP
> flow.
> One without using any reliable provisional response and another using
> Reliable provisional response

If 100rel is used and UPDATE is supported by both parties, the called party
has an additional option.

3) Send UPDATE and receive final response before sending INVITE final
response.
Mustafa AYDIN
2014-10-16 05:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Inline

Mustafa Ayd?n
NGN Services
Verscom Solutions
[cid:image003.jpg at 01CFE91C.FB74B6C0]

From: Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri [mailto:sourav_mitul at yahoo.co.in]
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:08 AM
To: Mustafa AYDIN; Paul Kyzivat; Vivek Talwar
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

Hi ,
Thanks all for your reply... So I just need the clarifications.

1) Can CRBT be played without Reliable provisional Response? If yes then whether the SDP is required in that unreliable provisional response?
Yes,CRBT can be played without Reliable prov response if the initial INV has SDP. You must send SDP in unreliable prov response as well.
2) Also since Paul already replied that as per RFC 6337 there should not be any new offer in 200OK of INVITE [as per my call flow in first mail] . So my question is after CRBT how will be caller A informed the change on Media.. Please refer my below example.
A has sent INVITE to B for a Video call. Then in CRBT is some song/music being played to A instead of ringing... After the establishment of call the Video chat should start. So How SDP negotiation will happen?
Assuming that A sends video support in INV?s SDP, B can answer with video support in 18x as well, so that you will have a video session after the CRBT. Another way around; B can send video m line port with 0 in 18x, then after the call is established B can initiate a re-inv to A with an SDP which has the proper port on video m line.

I will be really grateful if you clarify my query by two example of SDP flow. One without using any reliable provisional response and another using Reliable provisional response
There will be no change at the call flow with or without using relable prov. response. Reliable prov response is required in this scenario only if the initial INV has no SDP.

Regards,

Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri

On Wednesday, 15 October 2014 10:52 PM, Mustafa AYDIN <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com<mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>> wrote:

Hi Paul,

Yes, it seems that Sourav's concern is with early media as you can also see from the call diagram that he sent. CRBT stands for "colorful ringback tone", it is actually a specific song or audio file to play instead of the standard ring tone. As you said, it is possible that the early media might be sent from wrong IP:port pair.

Rgrds,
Mustafa Ayd?n
NGN Services
Verscom Solutions


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kyzivat [mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:36 PM
To: Mustafa AYDIN; Vivek Talwar
Cc: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.

On 10/15/14 12:16 PM, Mustafa AYDIN wrote:
> Hi Vivek,
>
> I agree most of your comment, however considering that the question
> here is ?can CRBT palyed without Reliable Provisonal response.? and
> due to the fact that CRBT is an actually an _early media RTP flow_
> (played before 200 OK), there is nothing to prevent UAC to get the
> CRBT in this scenario as the UAS knows where to send RTP. There should not be a
> dependency to the client as it is totally as per RFC.

Yes, the caller should get the early media. The problem is with the 200 with a new offer. So the caller may not get the final media.

But your issue is that the caller isn't getting the early media???

If so, maybe it is something else. For instance, it is pretty common to gate the incoming media - requiring that it come from the IP address/port in the answer. Maybe the media isn't being sent that way.

Thanks,
Paul

> Regards,
>
> Mustafa Ayd?n
>
> NGN Services
>
> Verscom Solutions
>
> cid:image002.png at 01CFD749.D928FC00<mailto:image002.png at 01CFD749.D928FC00>
>
> *From:*Vivek Talwar [mailto:vivek.talwar at globallogic.com<mailto:vivek.talwar at globallogic.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:31 PM
> *To:* Mustafa AYDIN
> *Cc:* Paul Kyzivat; sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> Hi Sourav,
>
> The UAS cann't send new offer in initial INVITE as per
> standards. Although above scenario can be propitiatory where sdp in
> 200 OK can be treated as answer but again as per standards sdp should
> be same in 1xx and 2xx responses. This will depend on client but yes
> above can work in some cases as B knows where to send media packets.
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Vivek Talwar
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 8:21 PM, Mustafa AYDIN
> <mustafa.aydin at verscom.com<mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com> <mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com<mailto:mustafa.aydin at verscom.com>>> wrote:
>
> Phil,
>
> I agree the messaging after 200 ok is incorrect but the main question
> is with the CRBT which is sent before 200 ok. Why do u think that the
> client would not get early media if the sdp in INV is correct ?
>
> Rgrda
> Mustafa
>
> From: sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>>
> [sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> <mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors-bounces at lists.cs.columbia.edu>>] On Behalf Of
> Paul Kyzivat [pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu> <mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu<mailto:pkyzivat at alum.mit.edu>>]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:47 PM
> To: sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> <mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Sip-implementors] can CRBT palyed without Reliable
> Provisonal response.
>
> On 10/15/14 10:22 AM, Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Can CRBT works without using Reliable Provisional Response ?
> >
> >
> >
> > A ================ INVITE (with SDP offer)
> ========================> B
> >
> > A <=============== 180 ringing (with SDP answer )
> ==================== B ----------------------> It is not a RPR
> >
> > CRBT Played
> >
> > A <=============== 200 OK for INVITE ( new SDP offer)
> =============== B
> >
> > A ================= ACK (new SDP answer)
> =======================> B
> >
> >
> > Whether the above diagram is a correct call flow for CRBT without
> using Reliable Provisional response?
>
> This is not correct, and wouldn't be correct even if the 180 was reliable.
>
> See RFC6337.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Sourav Dhar Chaudhuri
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sip-implementors mailing list
> > Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>>
> > https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>>
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
> _______________________________________________
> Sip-implementors mailing list
> Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>
> <mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu<mailto:Sip-implementors at lists.cs.columbia.edu>>
> https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/sip-implementors
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Name | Title*
> GlobalLogic
> P +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx M +x.xxx.xxx.xxxx S skype www.globallogic.com<http://www.globallogic.com>
> <http://www.globallogic.com/>
>
> http://www.globallogic.com/email_disclaimer.txt
>
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